Are you saying that every different method of magic described in every fantasy book is real? How does that work? Many of them are contradictory and couldn't exist together.

~Blue

quote:

Originally posted by Sean L.:
There are perhaps a couple of factual errors,

This is perhaps the understatement of the year. :P Did you not read any of the links I sent you about the film? David Albert, a philosopher of physics at Columbia University who was one of the people interviewed by the film said he was "outraged at the final product," and that the film is "“swarming with scientific inaccuracies, and its overall thesis is (in my opinion) wildly and irresponsibly wrong.” He also says that "it is certainly the case that I was edited in such a way as to completely suppress my actual views about the matters the movie discusses. I am, indeed, profoundly unsympathetic to attempts at linking quantum mechanics with consciousness. Moreover, I explained all that, at great length, on camera, to the producers of the film ... Had I known that I would have been so radically misrepresented in the movie, I would certainly not have agreed to be filmed." These are pretty serious allegations for someone who was apparently featured prominently in the film.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean L.:
That doesn't deny the fact that that is the direction where current theoretical physics is heading, especially with *biggrin* string theory.

I'd be very cautious about claiming you know the facts about current research in fundamental physics if you're not personally involved in it or personally know people who are. I should also point out that physics research that has been hyped by the media does not necessarily represent the direction of current theoretical physics research. Having said that, I should probably say what I know about current research in theoretical physics. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I was an undergrad at Columbia University (graduated just a few weeks back) where I majored in math with a concentration in physics. While I was there, I did get to interact with some of the physics faculty and graduate students doing research there. As far as string theory was concerned, many there were unhappy with it and the situation in theoretical physics overall. The experimentalists I spoke to had a strong dislike for string theory, to say the least, because it made no testable predictions and yet was pretty much sold as a "theory of everything."

In fact, many theoretical physicists are unhappy with the direction theoretical physics research is taking. You see, when string theory started out, it seemed like a really good idea, and as one of my physics professors put it "ten years ago they [the string theorists] made all sorts of statements about how this theory was going to solve everything, but then as the years went by their statements became less and less optimistic." A lot of theoretical physicists thought the theory was soon going to die out, but then a few years ago it became popular among the public, largely due to the efforts of string theorist Brian Greene who popularized it in his book The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory, which was then made into a NOVA miniseries. As a result of the publicity, funding for theoretical physics moved over mostly to string theory, effectively giving it a monopoly over theoretical physics research. Due to this monopoly, theoretical physicists who want to work on other ideas have trouble getting funding, or a research position, and so even if there are other good ideas for research they aren't heard. The resulting situation in theoretical physics is pretty bad. Here's an idea that despite having been worked on for twenty years now by many physicists has gotten nowhere and seems to be at dead end, but has managed to take over by playing on people's fantasies of extra dimensions and alternate universes. It's not hard to see why many physicists are unhappy by the over hyping of string theory. (In fact, one of the reasons why I decided to pursue research in math and not theoretical physics was because the situation there was discouraging and I would be forced to work on one idea, but at least in math I could pursue whatever interested me, as long as it was in math.)

The public, though, isn't aware of the situation, and so thinks that string theory is the answer. That is about to change soon, however. Recently physicists unhappy with the situation have started to make public their complaints. For example, the famous theoretical physicist Roger Penrose pointed out how certain aspects of string theory are at the least questionable in his recent book The Road to Reality : A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe. The popularizer of physics Lawrence Krauss (author of The Physics of Star Trek) recently wrote the book Hiding in the Mirror : The Mysterious Allure of Extra Dimensions, from Plato to String Theory and Beyond where he provides a history of the public's fascination of extra dimensions, and discusses how string theory is more a part of that fad than a theory of physical laws. This is just the beginning. Two more books are going to come out that directly attack string theory as a failure. One is by the famous theoretical physicist Lee Smolin, entitled The Trouble With Physics : The Rise of String Theory, The Fall of a Science, and What Comes Next, where he argues that fundamental physics research has lost its way, and string theory is to blame. Another is Not Even Wrong: The Failure of String Theory And the Search for Unity in Physical Law, by Peter Woit, who interestingly enough is a theoretician in the same institution as physicist Brian Greene, namely, Columbia University. It'll be interesting to see how things turn out.

Well, sorry for the digression, but just thought I'd point out that science that has been hyped or become a fad doesn't necessarily represent what the scientists are actually doing.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean L.:
That being said, maybe you should go see the movie?

Good question... Given what I already know about the movie, it doesn't seem promising. For one, factual errors tend to annoy me, and if a film is full of them, I'll probably be pretty annoyed by the end of it. :P Also, it seems that the movie is basically New Age Religion masquerading as science, which is pretty bad in itself. If I want to expand my horizons and see things froma different point of view, reading books like Hiding in the Mirror will do. In any case, to answer your question, I might give it a shot (though it seems unlikely right now), but if I do I'll say something about it here.

I believe magic is real. It apears in different forms. i believe there may be people who have magic powers like in young wizards or Harry potter. i also believe that magic can be found by the average person (like me) in a book, or a person. Magic is real, but it is always apearing in different forms, making it hard for some people to see it!

Just a few things:

Tiny bit of our minds? You might want to read this. http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm

Magic has to exist because it's been in our minds so long? That it's impossible to think up? You misunderestimate the human race. If only we could get the very first edition of the bible, and compare it to a common edition found in any church today. That would sure solve a lot of our problems/questions.

quote:

Originally said by Snuffleupagus Really -what is the "first edition" 
of the Bible?  The Gutenberg Bibles?  One laborously 
copied in it's entirety by a scholar some thousands of 
years ago? 

--------------
Physics is not my strong suit so I'll just leave that to the people who know what they're talking about, without adding stuff that I know nothing about into the conversation.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Gigo,

Peridexis,

You "find [my] insight slightly amusing"? You call me "my dear girl"? You pity me?

Oh, please.

That is one of the most rude, condescending posts I have ever read in these forums, and if I cared about your opinions of me or of my views, then yes, I probably would be offended. It's really a shame you felt the need to respond in such a manner. Even these sorts of topics usually keep a cordial tone around here.

Blue~

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bluesalamanders,

blue, peri, both of you said some words that were rude and condescending.

Peri, try and keep the 'holier than thou' attitude out of your words. Whether or not you pity her, I don't think you have a right to have or express that attitude here.

Anna, you know as well that some of your attitudes towards faith leaves people sputtering and not terribly happy with you.


I'm not asking you to apologize to each other. Just acknowledge that no one here is perfectly innocent of provocative remarks, and try not to make them in the future, okay?

Sean, the peacemaker...what a sight

I ask questions and express my opinions politely and calmly. I don't attack or insult people for their beliefs, nor do I look down on them, even if I disagree completely with those beliefs. And in my previous post, I responded to a direct attack against myself and my views and opinions. And the last two sentences were meant honestly, not condescendingly. I said nothing I need to apologize for.

Blue~

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bluesalamanders,

Sigh. Do I need to lock this thread?

Please remember that DD has stated the one thing she will not tolerate on this board is intolerance. Everybody may want to refresh themselves.

The key phrase I think you may be looking for here is "agree to disagree."

MM I am suprised that you did not come here a nd screem out load you know what ... I won't but tee-he *smirk* it so funny~

i sincerely apologize, blue, because that wasn't me. for the second time, someone found out my password. i changed it, thanks to PM, (thank you sooo muchi am really really sorry for any troube--i would never insult you because i respect your opinions. i'm not sure what else to say, except that i'm sorry for how rude that must have seemed. i hope you won't stay mad at me (even though it was stupid of me to not have noticed the post right away and delete it) because i think you're a great person who always has something wothwhie to contrubute. a thousand sorries,

-peri

P.S. and thanks to sean for always being the polite diplomat!

Okay...

Apology accepted, as long as you are more careful about your password from now on.

Blue~

i'm really, really sorry for that. i should have kept a better hold on my password, you're right. but what's confusing me now is who got my password in the first place. oh well...and i like your new avatar.

-peri

Personally, my concern isn't so much the "who" as it is the "how". Pick a password that isn't easy to guess (they generally suggest using both letters and numbers), that you don't need to write down, and, if you share the computer or if someone has access to your computer who might have done this, don't let the password manager of the browser remember it.

And thank you. It is pretty, isn't it?

Blue~

Put it this way:

Magic is real if u beleive it is!

o, and also,

i have had "Magical moments" where something broken is fixed, or I hear something unhearable
(once i am SURE i heard the heartbeat of ocean city!!!!) or sensing something impossible, or understanding something weird. a girl in a movie says a spell in weird language and I KNOW!! that it is going to fail! because all she said was "Open the gate" not being specific to where. she did'nt say it in english, but i understood! things can get weird when u beleive in magic. at the end of a book on tape version of HW there was an interveiw with DD. she said that she told a cooworker that talking to computers helped them work faster. the person said they didn't beleive it, and later their computer crashed!! Freaky, huh!!!

seriosly you coluld pick almost any science fiction or fantasy book and find some sort of magic there and there all diffrent and disprove the others

Interesting to see my point of view from January to now. A bit off from a year later.

Magic, real? Uhm, in some theories, yes. Others, no not really.

Say, other worlds and universes? Yes, totally.

Saying a word and bam, you get it. No. Sorry.

But as far as speaking of other powers of the world, yes again.
And speaking of life on the other Universes. Yes.
Faeries and demons. Yes but not completely.
UFO and Martains. Not really. A bit too cheesy for me. I'd believe it if i see it.

Magic in general. Im not sure. And i would have to really feel like getting to the core of it. Somedays, yes. Other nah. Not really. It all depends on how life is treating me.

There is life elsewhere.

Ta.

I believe an a YW type of magic. I have had dreams that did happen at a later time. I also believe in the Ki/Chi/whatever concept of an aura. I've walked into my house and known that someone was angry or upset without actually seeing or hearing anything. I can call breezes when I concentrate. I don't do these things too often because when I do I feel a empty sinking feeling in my chest and I feel weaker, so it can't be all that good for me.

I think magis creal...i get tons of magic moments...things just tend to go weird around me. Plus, one of my ferets, pop, has began acting like a wizard's pet in terms of weirdness...
she's finding herself inside closed cabnits, and in locked showers, inside a bathroom, she never sees, inside a bed room she's not alowed to go into...it's really weird...

Or it could just be the natural draining of energies that surrounds stuff like that...to what maxrox said.
and most of us here have had dreams that come true...
I get them all the time...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Peter Murray,

Yes, I belive it, to an extent. I've have a few "Magic Moments" I had one today. My teacher was reading from a newly published Book of the Dead and I was speaking it right along with her. Also, I was watching Phantom of the Opera in French, and I could speak French fluently, Once, I was watching a movie and part of it was in Latin, and my sister asked me what they said, and I could tell her. I DON'T SPEAK LATIN! I heard it as if it were in English, and one more, I have TONS of lucid dreams. One was The Tsinami. Also, I get these renching feelings, like for 9/11, and I get Deja vu a lot. There are more things, but I won't go into it.

magic... yeah, i believe there is magic in the world. Think about it. So many wierd things happen all the time. some of them are just weird though . But one time I dreamed of a school in sixth grade and it turned out to be my middle school!! and another time this four square ball, I think, almost hit me while I was sitting down reading. a minute later, I mived while I was reading and the next second, the ball whizzed past where my head had been!! I sometimes have dreams that seem to come true, but that happens mor with my sister. I mainly just get feelings.



"You're the one who said books have to be heavy because the whole world's inside them."
Cornelia Funke, Inkheart