Why the Noah story?

Evil will always lose.- Miep Gies

Noah's Ark story was just a flood of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in something like 2100 BCE. However, it DID drown a lot of people and so on.

Catholics are evangalists and don't take into consideration they might be wrong. I don;t hate them- but they annoy me. Some attempt to force their religion on you.

Resident Otaku, Martial Artist, and Miko. Do not anger me-the consequences could be... dire.

I see.

-IV-
Ipha

That's interesting; I don't know about the Tigris rivers, but I do know that several religions (not just the whatchamacallem ones, you know, Jewism, Islam and Christianity... they're all related and there's a name for it that I can't remember...) have a Flood of massiv proportions. It's also interesting to look at things like... well, in the story of Moses, one of the plagues was "the river running red with blood-" and there's a very interesting phenomena involving some sort of weed or bacteria (sketchy on the details) that actually turns the water of the Nile red. There's also an explanation for the parting of the Sea; there's a certain ocean which is believed to be the one Moses crossed, and in this sea (forgive me, I'm seriously sketchy... I had this last year in RE.), well it's more of aharbour; and IIRC there have been earthquakes which drained the harbour dry for brief periods of time. What I find really interesting, though, is that in the RE class where I learnt that, the teacher (Actually, I don't want to misrepresent him. He's actually very very good indeed at not pushing Christianity on to people, everything he says is respectful, he's actually fantastic) was sort of using this as evidence- for him- towards there being a God. The way he put it, you could look at it as a combination of scientific coincidences- or you could look at it as a combination of scientific coincidences with a divine purpose, sort of evidence as to the mysterious ways in which God works.

I'm inclined to look at it a little differently. The Bible is an anthology (basically) of all the cool stuff that God does. (OK, tha's really not what it is, but it can be summarised crudely for the purposes of my argument.) So, in this book when it was collated, people aren't going to choose stories where there's no apparent miracle. They're going to choose stories that have implication, and seem to be the work of the God. God's works didn't get put in the Bible; the Bible turned them into God's works. It's sort of hard to explain. Anyway, that wasn't really helpful; I'll think about it (maybe do some actual research) and see.
T
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This message has been edited. Last edited by: Garrett Fitzgerald,

Amazing is it not??? We started off normal, went bonkers and had a virtual sparring match(which is still not at an end), began discussing religion, went back to chatting normally, again lost our marbles as we approached 10 pages, and now here we are once again discussing religion. Is it just me or is a pattern being developed here?

-IV-
Ipha

Maybe. I hope not, religion is a little boring unless you somehow make it interesting, speaking of religion, I have to go to church. Darn. Bye!

Evil will always lose.- Miep Gies

AHEM!
1. Hi! I'm back! You missed me! Oh I'm so touched! Actually I haven't moved yet. I was away on a trip with my grandparents to Idaho. We got to go to Yellowstone! Which is like the coolest thing ever...we saw Old Faithful and the mud pots and tons of bison and elk and we saw steam vents which smell nasty and hot springs and all this other cool stuff!! Anyhow I'm back now.

2. Okay, before I start, I want to apologize in advance for anything I might say in the following rant that offends anyone. I'm just gonna let myself go. Furthermore, I do have some doubts on Noah's Ark and all that; I'm not gonna talk about that. Just let me start already!!

quote:

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Catholics are evangalists and don't take into consideration they might be wrong. I don;t hate them- but they annoy me. Some attempt to force their religion on you.

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I'm Catholic. I don't necessarily agree with everything in the Catholic religon, but the above quote did offend me just a tad. I'll admit it's true that some Catholics try to "force their religon on you." But you're stereotyping. You're forcing everyone into one big clump. I take into consideration that I might be wrong. I don't try to force my religion on other people. This is one of the things I'm proud of about myself: I accept other people's beliefs and don't try to change them. I have to say I didn't appreciate that quote when I read it.
I just read that again and it sounded a little harsh, but I mean it all. I'm apologizing again now; I DON'T want to offend, but I felt that some reply needed to be made to that. I'm sorry.

*Ella*

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle."
-Plato

Yea!!!!!!!!!! Ella's back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hooray!!!! yes of course we missed you! (or at least I did) You cover........ I don't know how much percentage but more then most, I think you are in fourth of posts, Birdhead, Me, Rysade, then I think you so you cover a lot and you are interesting to "talk" to. Cool, Yellowstone! I've never been there but my grandparents have a lot of placemats from there. And I don't think I read that quote, who wrote it, Uh! Aurora! Like Ella I'm Catholic too, although I also don't believe in some catholic beliefs, but I take offense to that! Catholics are not annoying, am I annoying?
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AH!!!!!!!! 14 pages!! How long will this go for?

Evil will always lose.- Miep Gies
edited to combine posts - gf

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Garrett Fitzgerald,

Hi Ella! You're back... I missed you too!!

As to the Catholic thing... well, I'm actually on the opposite side to you. While Aurora may be stereotyping Catholicsm, she isn't really doing it by much- and though maybe she shouldn't generalise, I find it really easy to see where she's coming from, because as an atheist I have encountered Catholics, including one of my friends, who have tried to convert me. Eventually I've had to stay away from the topic, especially a few years ago (when I was tactless) and she became really hurt and offended by some of the things I said. So I quit talking about it (although she does try to convert me on an occasionaly basis.)

So... I can see where Aurora's coming from.
T
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This message has been edited. Last edited by: Garrett Fitzgerald,

Yeah I guess, but she shouldn't steryotype.

Evil will always lose.- Miep Gies

Hey, Glad to have you back. No problem about the rant though, I understand where you are coming from. As I attend a Baptist church I really get sick of hearing the stereotypical baptist stereolization.(is that a word?) This is mainly because of the ton of different Baptist churches I have been to. When we first came to where I live now, we tryed out almost everychurch in the area. Finally we settled for the one we attend now. As I've said before, it is far different then what Baptists Churches are known for. Given, there are hardcore Baptists in this church but they are a minority. It is pretty hard to let others diss one's church when they don't know yours personally. That is the great danger in stereolizing.
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This goes for all things. Not just Church. Also, I apologize for the lack of adjectives in my last post.

combined posts - gf
-IV-
Ipha

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Garrett Fitzgerald,

I know I'm stereotyping. I know not all catholics are like that. But I DID say 'some.' (Or at least I think I did)

No, I meant the Catholics that attempt to convert people are very annoying. Especialy when they tell me I'm going to hell. Especially when they diss the friends I hang out with because they are Wiccan. Its these people I have very little tolerance for.

I actually get along very well with most other catholics (and christians) as long as they don't shove their religion in my face. I feel that religion is a very personal thing. One of my friends for instance- she's catholic, but because she keeps it mostly to herself- I mean, we all know she's catholic, but she accepts us for who we are, so all my friends are fine with that. She doesn't attempt to boycott a geography lesson about the four Eras and evolution (not like some poeple), and even if she doesn't like it, she accepts it as the theory, and doesn't protest about it. As long as they're quieter about their beliefs, I'm fine with it.

So yes, I was stereotyping.

Wow... that was a nice long rant...

Resident Otaku, Martial Artist, and Miko. Do not anger me-the consequences could be... dire.

I know what you mean. Some of my good friends at school are all into that Gothic type lifestyle. To me, if you are trying to be a witness or talk to them about God, Screaming (not literally) at them about hell and how wrong their beliefs are is just about the WORST thing you can do. All it does is make that person hate the other for getting up in their face. Many people it seems don't really think about what "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" really means. I'm not just talking about not putting that principle into every moment of you life, I'm talking about people who have BLINDED themselves into seeing anything but their own "rightousness". People like that are HARD to get along with.

By the way, Rant on. It's a lot of fun.

-IV-
Ipha

I'm a Catholic and I don't know anyone like that. The only religion that bugs me is Morman, you know Jehova Witnesses. The people that come to your door and call you on the phone and have tv commercials and who some men have 9 wives. But I can't really diss them, because a good portion of my family live in Utah and I have two Mormans in my family (marriage, not blood.)

The Architect: Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.
-The Matrix Reloaded, 2003

Graham Hess: So what you have to ask yourself is what kind of person are you: are you the kind that sees signs, sees miracles? Or do you believe that people just get lucky? Or, look at the question this way: Is it possible that there are no coincidences?
-Signs, 2002

yeah, but I've dealt with them before...

I really dislike the tension between the Wiccans and the Christians... Christians refuse to speak to the Wiccans, and, well, the Wiccans don't care. As they see it, "If they don't want to speak to me, I'll just leave them alone." It doesn't help I have friends in both categories and a lot of atheist friends too. there's a lot of tension and stuff like that.

Resident Otaku, Martial Artist, and Miko. Do not anger me-the consequences could be... dire.

FYI, WizardGirl -

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are two different religious groups (not that I belong to either one, being a Methodist myself) - just thought you might want to know. They both seen to do their fair share of door-knocking, but the Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones who don't celebrate any holidays, while the Mormons (also known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) are the ones who used to practice polygamy and have the tv commercials.

Squash

Hey hey, Auroa, not to disagree with you (I don't) or to rabblerouse (that might be a lie) but you just effectively said that you don't have any problems with Catholics as lond as they aren't openly Catholic around you and either have mild Catholic principles or don't mind compromising said principles. Just wanted to point that out, because it's sort of like saying you don't care if... oh, hunting for appropriate example, you don't care if someone's gay so long as they don't openly flirt with a guy in your company or something. Not that I'm suggesting that, or anything... it just... oh well. Thought you might like to know how that sounded, because I'd hate not to know if I did... I'm babbling... anyway, point made.
T
trim sig - gf

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Garrett Fitzgerald,

heh heh. O.k. Aurora, yes converting missionary type Catholics ARE annoying. I agree, I've met a few.

Evil will always lose.- Miep Gies

I like it, but (I'm fighting this and losing) you spelled tomorrow wrong. Don't hate me!

Actually, the place where I was for my trip was primarily at a Mormon college. They have this thing called the Mission where they leave home for 2 years to evangilize. That's it, they just try to convert people. They're only allowed to call home (when on their Mission) on Christmas and Mother's Day.
They are also not allowed to wear pants or tank tops at any time. The men are not allowed to have their ears pierced as well, etc. etc. While we were on the campus, we had to follow the rules: wear pants to all our meals and classes. It's really pretty stifling. (No offense if anyone here is Mormon, perchance.)

As to what we were discussing: I would find it annoying if someone tried to push their religion in my face. That's why I don't do it. I do have a friend through religion class who's really active in this and runs, with some of her friends, a website about the Catholic faith which tries to convert people. I don't do that. I agree with you, Aurora, but I also agree with Birdhead and her confused point-making. Actually, I really don't know what I think-which makes this post useless. Oh well...

*Ella*

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle."
-Plato

No... post where you don't know what you think can be quite interesting, because you're albe to present two sides of an issue and why they sway you. Once you've made up your mind, you're stuck. You'll never present a completely unbiased opinion again.
T
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This message has been edited. Last edited by: Garrett Fitzgerald,