I'm another one of the hopefuls for "Not Dead."

DD brought in a cast of characters in WH and killing off one as influencial as Roshaun in his second book seems so unlikely. Besides, why else would all the shippy behavior be apparent? Why would Dairine meet his parents and homeworld and hear his thoughts if he was going to be booted? Nope. Doesn't make sense. He is definetly still out there. Even if it is in a Spike like way. And the hole in Timeheart? Nita's mother was in Timeheart, Fred was in Timeheart, if you die, you go to Timeheart .

Otherwise, we'll all be sobbing in the next book.

Why would Roshaun be dead if Dairine's done all that?

Because, dramatically, it makes it easier for the reader to identify with her loss if he really is dead. We've seen them sharing thoughts, we've seen them go from annoying each other most of the time to seriously trying to get along, we've seen Dairine meet his parents, and even get dressed up for him/them, which nobody else could get her to do. We've seen her introduce him to her "children".

In AWOM, we may see her mourn for him, in a different way to her reaction to her mother's death.

But she's probably right; he probably is alive somewhere. I'm just disagreeing that it makes no sense.

You are, of course, absolutely right, Peter. It is most certainly dramatic--I was about ye close to tears.

And yet again, though...there's just so much stuff that says he's NOT dead/bring-back-able (ouch. That was the only way I could think to put it, sorry) that it just seems terribly silly to say "Never mind all that, he's really dead, Dairine's gone crazy. And Nita too. Because she saw the dream. Yeah."

Speaking of which-- does anybody think Nita will be involved in the Search For Prince Unlikely because of her...er, abilities, or will it be a personal quest for Dairine? The way the aWoM summary is sounding, it seems like Nita will be pretty preoccupied, but it's possible she could lend a couple lucid dreaming hands.

PM mentioned "I haven't seen enough Buffy to realise they'd used an idea like that."

The "his soul was saved in the amulet" idea was revealed in Angel, actually, after the conclusion of Buffy (which showed Spike going up in flames).

Somehow, the amulet idea seems a little cliche. I'd like to think he was thrown bodily far, far away. And is having to face the LP there with a new group of companions.

It's probably significant that Ponch's first reaction wasn't to ask what happened to Roshaun, but to ask "Where did he go?"

Dairine's first reaction was also to say "Where is he?" and she knew what the wizardry he was using was doing. (Well, she knew more about it than anyone else bar Roshaun.)

I think I saw about one episode of Angel. However, I know that Marvel Comics/Jim Starlin gave Adam Warlock a gem which stole the souls of those he killed with it. That was a long time before Joss Whedon wrote Toy Story Buffy. And before that, Michael Moorcock's Elric used a sword that stole souls - though the sword only used them for energy, unlike Warlock's soulgem, which preserved the souls inside it, so that he could meet his victims again.

Aha! And now we fall right back on my own initial idea: Roshaun is just Far Far Away.

I've said this, but the spell was, in essence, and transport spell. Thus, it is most likely that when Ro lost control of it, BAM! He's suddenly somewhere else. What I'd like to know is, is it in this universe? That's where Nita could come in handy, I think, and Kit too--he had all the experience with, er, The One and It's finding/creating abilities, ect.

"His Soul is Saved By the Amulet!" After due consideration, I just don't find that logical. Someone would've figured it out pretty fast if that was the case.

I think that it will be mostly Dairine's own quest to find Roshaun, although Nita may help out a bit. Speaking of D/R...what Dairine said to him on the moon...does anyone know the story of Odin and Baldur? In the Errantry Concordance
DD mentions that what Dairine says to Roshaun is the writers version of what Odin says to Baldur before the pyre is lit. If anyone has an idea...PLEASE POST IT!

To clarify:

• Posts about what Odin said to Baldur are Ok; they're not fanfic (unless DD is going to make them characters in an upcoming novel). Besides, Kristina seems to be asking for what the legend actually says.
  
• Posts which tell anyone else's version of what Dairine said to Roshaun on the Moon are fanfic, and hence Not Allowed Here.
  
• It's a riddle.
  
• Hi, Kristina. I hadn't said Hi to you before.
  
• DD plans to post what Dairine said to Roshaun on the Moon, in the Concordance.
  

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Peter Murray,

And to be quite honest, I can't wait.

Of course, knowing DD, it'll probably turn out to be somewhat mundane and/or unimportant. And then the shippers will be...suprised. Didn't we see that coming

Though I would like to know what Odin said to Baldur--in the sense of the legend (if, in fact, there is one). But no fanfic, of course. Never, never. The place for that is fanfiction.net, and always will be.

So. I looked up the myth surrounding Baldur. On wikipedia I found this:

quote:

Bald(u)r is known primarily for the myth surrounding his death. His death is seen as the first in the chain of events which will ultimately lead to the destruction of the gods at Ragnarok. Baldr, however, will, as foretold in the Völuspá, be reborn in the new world.

Interesting. Could we draw a parallel between Baldur and Roshaun? Possibly. Personally, I think this is reading a bit too much into it, but you never know with DD, she's pretty damn smart like that Anyhow, I just thought I'd share, since it's an interesting story.

(As for the "what Odin said to Baldur" reference, it seems that Baldur was Odin's son, and by the time there were any pyres to light, it was Baldur's own funeral pyre. So, doesn't that technically rule out any conversations? Of course, that's why it's a riddle.)

[EDIT]

I just realized that what I just quoted was the article that PM linked. Whoops! Am I doing something wrong specifically quoting it here? I mean, none of it's fanfiction, so I'm clear, right? I was just saying what happened in the myth. Anyways. So here it is, folks.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: AlidaART,

I want to thank Peter M. for posting the link to the riddle relating to what Odin whispered in Baldur's ear. You were right; I was looking for some insight into the actual riddle, not fanfic. After reading up on the legend a bit, I was more intrigued than ever…

As for Alida’s idea that whatever Dairine said to Roshaun on the moon would turn out to be mundane/unimportant, I guess I could see that happening. It was cut from the book, so it couldn’t have been that important to the overall plot. At first I thought that what Dairine said and the legend of Odin and Baldur were related, now I think they may be different parts of the story entirely. Will DD write her ideas on what Odin whispered? Or will she have a comment whispered to someone secretly so that we never find out?

On the question: "Is Roshaun alive or is he dead?," my vote is Yes

I think it's very possible he will return in some altered form, I just don't think he's going to pop up again in the the long blond hair and the baggy T-shirt.

Don't forget Dairine's discovery of the worldgate between her back yard and Roshaun's private room. Also Roshaun's father's invitation to teach her how to work the Sunstone. Clearly she's fated for Bigger And Better Things.

quote:

AlidaART said:
Whoops! Am I doing something wrong specifically quoting it here? I mean, none of it's fanfiction, so I'm clear, right?

I don't think it's a problem - after all, the legend is centuries old. I looked at it and decided to be lazy and not to summarise it, just to link to it.

While what Dairine said to Roshaun may not have been that important to the plot of WH, it might be important to the course of the Dairine/Roshaun relationship, whatever that may turn out to be.

MaxZook-- also a possibility that I considered. Read A College of Magics? Something similar (a concious reincarnation) happens to one of the characters in that book (which is, dare I say, just as fabulous as YW).

Just checking, PM. I'd hate to cause a problem (eheheheh.)

...also, good point: what is DD's definition of "important"? And perhaps what was said on the moon was along the same vein as the conversation(s) on the mobiles' world/elsewhere on their journey. Or a precursor to said discussions.

quote:

Peter Murray said:
(...)important to the course of the Dairine/Roshaun relationship, whatever that may turn out to be.

Nudge nudge wink wink. (Note Monty Python reference.)

I definitely don't think he's dead. It's way too ambiguous - pretty much every other major-ish character who's died in previous books (Fred, Ed, Mrs. Callahan, etc) is met one more time before the end of the book in Timeheart. Since Dairine didn't find Roshaun in "his" section of Timeheart...yeah. He's pretty much not dead. Besides, if Ronan can be deus-ex-machina-d back to life when he hasn't been around for the past 3 or 4(?) books, a character who was just introduced in the last book and still seemed to have a roll to play, I don't think, would have been killed off.
Where he is, though, I have no clue.

(Behold, I have come out of a years-long lurkdom to comment on Roshaun. Dammit, I've become a shipper again.)

Oh, don't worry about it Waku-chan...I'm a huge lurker/shipper too (doesn't seem like it now, I know, but I usually lurk...it's just that Ro and WaW have brought me out of my shell)

And Roshaun is worth talking about. Because he's uber-spiffy and...stuff. I just adore him...

Yeah, I thought the same thing when I read the book: "Wait! She didn't kill Ronan but she killed Roshaun!? That doesn't make sense!" And you are completely right, it would be highly bizzare to kill off a character to who so obviously still has some important part to play in the story. (Add that to the fact that I think DD is beginning to shift the series to Dairine as Nita and Kit's whole deal calms down...though considering the rather shippy end of WaW, maybe I'm wrong about that )

Although DD said that Dairine would be "gone" a lot in AWoM, I'm still hoping that we get a little bit of insight as to whether or not Roshaun is still in some sort of humaniod form.
I really don't have any clue as to what has happened to him...I just hope that we get at least a chapter that is Dairine based, filling us in first hand on what is going on with them. My guess is that Dairine will be learning a lot in the next book. While she's away, she will probably be doing a lot of research, not to mention learning to use the Sunstone.

Oh man...we'd better see a Dairine-based chapter. I dunno if my poor little mind could take the suspense

But quite honestly, I don't expect that there'll be no word whatsoever from Dairine, though AWoM sounds generally Nita/Kit centric (in more ways than one). I mean, she'll check in a couple times, but DD seems to be saying that Ro won't be really back for a couple books yet. Though that will be made easier by the one-a-year schedule...

quote:

Originally posted by Kristina:
Although DD said that Dairine would be "gone" a lot in AWoM, I'm still hoping that we get a little bit of insight as to whether or not Roshaun is still in some sort of humaniod form.

I'm hoping that Dari's gone-ness in AWoM will be somewhat compensated for in the next one- I like having Dairine around. And she's completely met her match in Roshaun. *crosses fingers and hopes we learn something soon.

Add my vote for "not dead". He's a wonderful character, and I seriously doubt that DD is going to kill him off without exploring his potential a lot further.

Also, I think he and Dairine were made for each other. I'm just a romantic, I guess.