I've always adored Carmela's character. I mean, she's so unique and fun! I have the feeling that she probably bought the chocolate in bulk and won't stop using it as a bartering tool. I'm afraid of what kind of non-wizardly power Carmela could get ahold of. For pete's sake, she could hire some of the best mercenaries for star systems around with one bar of chocolate!
Scar-ee...
She's also not going to back down from trying to help Kit and co. in the future. I think the tension between her and the LP from the 'Oops...' incident will pop up again. No way she's staying neutral.

What you all are thinking about her not knowing about the LP in the king is really interesting, but I'm not sure I quite buy it. She knows that the wizards downright fear this thing, something that probably wouldn't apply to a mean bug king. Besides, she destroys the bug form and the LP actually manifests istelf. I think Carmela knows of the danger from what Kit, Dari, and Neets do, even if she doesn't know the specifics. I just think she's uber-brave, awesome, and in some unique way, very, very strong... and stubborn.

Also, did anyone else sense something with her and Filif before her and Ronan (who seems kind of scared of her)?

I think that Carmela stole the show in this book. All of the funny scenes seemed to involve her in some way. I really liked the "Opps" thing and the "Toothpick of Virtue" and the thing she said to Kit at the beginning about aliens and chocolate. I'm also glad that the curling iron/eggbeater wepon made a comeback in this book. I had always hoped we'd see it again.

Also, I doubt Carmela was the first non-wizardly earth human to go to the Crossings. I know most non-wizardly earth people don't get offworld much, but surely there was someone...

I LOVE Carmela here! When I found that she was talking about the TV manual instead of the real Manual, I actually laughed aloud! This is extremely rare for me to do whilst alone. It's just... I was all set, like, "Oh wow, I knew that this was gonna happen sometime!" and I was just imagining the cringing look of horror that Kit must've had... Tee hee!
Her humor (like what Isarian said on page 1) was such a great comic relief in the middle of a really intense scene. That's just... classic Carmela- she can never, ever understand the gravity of the situation. Leave the little brother to save the world, but she still has time to barter with the dangerous Talwalf on the side for a bit of chocolate. Eeeexhellent. Mon DIEU, she's swisse!
And add to all of this the whole Lara Croft "comes-into-the-Crossings-in-a-shootout-in-crazy-cool-clothing-and-a-laser-stunner-on-the-hip" thing. DD's amazing!
Why didn't she come under LP's control? I mean, that was great acting and DD put together a great scene, but why didn't she? Because she wasn't really a wizard, didn't believe, what?

Dai katiedidnt and Alethia.

I have to pick on the avatars you're using: in the guidelines the rule is that avatars can't be bigger than 100x100 pixels, and yours are 207x198 and 120x118 respectively. The pictures are Ok, if you scale them down first. Sorry to nag you so early.

I was looking back through Wizard's Holiday and found the scene with Kit telling Carmela he'll have to have that laser dissociator back, so that he can make it safe. Just as well he didn't get round to it, really .

Alethia: Yes, the LP may have thought she wasn't worth bothering with - what could she do? (Plenty, of course.)

He did make it safe. Carmella told nita that when kit fixed it he didn't void the warrantee.
so carmella sent for the free upgrade.

Oops! Sorry! Will do!

Gosh, I can't believe this, but Carmela is actually the /only/ character in the YW series I just can't /stand/!! I'm not exactly sure why, but she annoys me terribly. I mean, she's just so weird and annoying! And she reminds me of these popular girls at my school who think they know about stuff they have no clue about, and never know when to back off.

I mean, she spends all day in alien chat rooms, that's cool. She, somehow, seems to know the Speech as well as most wizards w/out ever opening a book. Okay. But then she randomly shows up in the Crossings and demands to be taken on the adventure? No way!! And, somehow, she manages to do all of that, and /still/ be a ditz!!

Also, she gets in the way of Ronan/Nita, which is just unforgivable.

See, I don't agree with you there. Because she isn't all haughty about her ignorance- she knows that she doens't know this stuff- that's what makes the whole scene about "finding the manual" so funny!
She's unaware, but up to the extent that it's funny! And she's nice about it. That's the point.
And she flirts with everybody- Sker'ret, Roshaun, Filif, and Ronan. Which is every male wizard that she's ever met, in case you've forgotten.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Alethia,

"After all that," Nita's mother said, "am I a nonwizard?"

The line between wizard and nonwizard is anything but clear-cut. The manuals alone range from as simple and straight-forward as a book to a sentient computer to your own memory.

Carmela may not have passed an Ordeal, have an obvious manual, or be the right age, but you can't deny the services she's done against the Lone Power. I like to think of her as both the most wizardly nonwizard and the least wizardly wizard. I think the only reason her case seems so odd is how laid-back she is.

EDIT for my first post: Forgot to mention Ponch, who both is (or was) certainly not a wizard, and also certainly had some rather odd powers.

Anyway, Carmela's so laid-back simply because it's how she deals with things. If you didn't brush off things such as fighting Yalrid warriors and facing the Lone One she'd simply break down, because she can't handle it seriously like most of the characters do.

Merged the two posts - JLrep, you can edit your own posts with the middle icon of the row of three - Peter

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Peter Murray,

Agreed. She's basically a wizard because of her services to fight entropy, however unintentional they may see. But why is she so "laid-back," up to the point that she's completely oblivious? That's the question.

Right after Ponch goes off and destroys another of the LP's avatars, the Transcendent Pig tells Kit that "the dogs now have a version of the One". My first thought was that that indicated Ponch had been a direct manifestation of a form of the One. Concurrence/disagreement on this one?

Also, in reference to Carmela being a wizard due to her having acted against entropy, I don't necessarily agree that acting against entropy makes one a wizard. After all, in SYWTBAW, the manual mentions that everyone can take actions that reduce entropy, but it is the use of the Speech that makes one a wizard. And, even though she is becoming fluent in the Speech, anything she says in the speech will lack the enactive essence necessary for spelling (see http://www.youngwizards.com/ErrantryWiki/index.php/Enacture), making greater and more complex actions against the LP difficult if not impossible for her (such as her inability to survive in vacuum without someone else to spell for her). This doens't mean I think she's useless though - I think she has a great part to play in the fight to come.

I don't think so - not in the way that Peach was Michael, or that Ronan carried Michael within him. I think Ponch developed into a facet of the one.

In AWAl, Darryl says to Ponch, "I recognize you -- what you're becoming." (p 215 of the pb edition.) This suggests to me that Darryl knew where Ponch was headed, but that he wasn't already an avatar of the One then.

As for Carmela - true, that Concordance entry limits her. Though... having already helped fight the Lone Power, maybe she will become a wizard anyway? And maybe she won't.

AGH! I JUST SPENT TEN MINUTES TYPING UP A DETAILED ANSWER AND THE THING DELETED IT!!!!
*Ire* *Irk* *Irk* *Ire*
Okay, anyways.

I concur with the middle paragraph. Before all of this he was just a normal dog- it's when he started created universes that he was becoming a power.
Or what about a Hesper? *Waggles eyebrows*

And Carmela could still become a wizard- but I doubt it. But I tell you, there's something going on with her being so oblivious!

Huh. Carmela bein' a wizard......

*tries to picture Carmela reading in her Wizard's Manuel--in whatever form it would be in--looking up spells and tactfully bringing light upon the Lone One's dark ambition...*


That's like soooo hard to imagine...

The only thing I see with Carmela and Wizardry is if it--somehow-- _somehow_ has something to do with her 'lil eye candy baby boi, Ronan.....

Carmela could like come blastin' in at the right moment in future books like she did in W@W but that's pretty much all I can imagine.

But if she does turn into a wizard....Kit better watch out.

((then again, so should Ronan, he'd be stalked more XDDD))

Carmela was definitely annoying - but still really funny! She made the book much more interesting, and added some great comic relief. I didn't (and still don't) want her to become a wizard, though. I don't think she could ever be serious enough to be a wizard. Besides, she says "I don't need a wizard's manual. I'm fine just the way I am." (pg. 445) And I agree.

Hey Alida, about what you said about the guy in the bar in HW, that he was the fifth Doctor Who: How the heck do you know that?!
Was it in a DD chat or something?

while I have doubts about Carmela being annoying, I know she is hilarious, absolute best in a book comic relief ever. I have also noted that she flirts with any male wizards that kit knows, mostly to annoy him, but possibly cause she can. I would also like to note that she probably wont be bursting onto the scene in the middle of the books, but will either become a more involved character or simply make everyone laugh when they visit kit's house. after reading PM's timeline I noted the fact that not only are all the current books set in the 1980's, but that carmela is older then kit..., aggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh EVIL
not fair at all, even if they don't really exist

sorry bout that


(\__/)
(+'.'+) This is Bunny. show his image
(")_(") to help him conquer the world.
in other words, feel free to copy and paste everywhere, ALL HAIL BUNNY!!

"I reject you reality and substitute my own"-Adam Savage

"Absurdity is the spice of life, the little things that always make the one being absurd laugh, and no one else"-me, seriously

"the one who lives in darkness has the least trouble finding the light" Monday's Dusk, from Mister Monday, book 1 of the Keys to the Kingdom series, by Garth Nix

" its not the custard that kills you its the Kittens" me after reading IWC #331

Who says that they don't exist!?!?
To me, it makes perfect sense that Carmela's older. Even though she may seem to fit the stereotypical little-sister-tagalong, I always get the feeling she does whatever she wants to, not because of admiration of her "older brother" but just because she's interested. :-) She knows how to teasingly get under his skin, and she just seems overall like the quintessence of an older sibling. Laa.

RE Dr. Who: Oh gods, let's see...it was somewhere on the forums. And I'm not sure it was the fifth Doctor, precisely, because I'm really not up on my Dr. Who trivia, but I know it was one of them. Yeah. Just look around on the HW board, it should be there somewhere. I'm not entirely sure if DD has confirmed it, per se, but it's been pretty well discussed and debated, and the general consensus seems to be that it was one of the Doctors, making a brief cameo.

The timeline's left-hand column is worked out for dates in the 80s because of the two dates in Deep Wizardry (my copy of it, at least). The right-hand column is worked out so that it ends in 2005 - until I update it for AWOM.

If you're wondering what the fifth Doctor looks like, this Concordance entry just happens to have a photo of him.